This blog wasn't part of the plan. But Rafi 's response to my early post (now became part I) made me think more of the issue. His provocative summary definitely deserves at least a separate blog post.Rafi: I suppose with five children that means I'm optimistic. However, I don't think that your analysis is complete. I think that having children has several levels.
Yoyo: You're more than optimistic. For somebody as timid as MM and myself, anybody who has more than two children is our hero and you're our superhero!
I agree my "analysis" wasn't complete, and that why I am writing this one. Thanks for participating and sharing your insights!
To my defense though I was only "warbling". Posts with the tag of "Yoyo warbling" often shows emotional side of me. But your feedback makes me THINK (I'll put a "Yoyo in business" tag on this one). Here we go...
Rafi: Firstly I think that yes it is a kind of optimism that makes you want to create a new life. It is the feeling that that new person with the correct nurturing will make a difference and that the world will be better for his presence. What I can be more certain of is that his immediate environs will be a better place.
Yoyo: Absolutely agree!
You talked more about the other side of the coin, i.e. an optimistic parent believes his child will make the world a better place. My standpoint was selfish in comparison, I asked "am I optimistic enough to think the world will be livable for my child?"
Rafi: It is also maybe an inflated sense of self that I feel that I have something to contribute to the world that I don't want to die when I do. I want to continue contributing after my death.
Yoyo: Point taken. But to have a child is not the only way one can realize "an inflated sense of self" and "continue to contribute". Other alternatives: adopt a kid, mentor a student, publish a book, donate a library, and of course paint singing sceneries!
Rafi: But more than that it is also a way to counter despair and futility of our non-significant short stay in this world. Why do I live? Most people do not do something world changing in their lifetime. Time is so short and there is so much to do. What I can do is continue to carry the torch and contribute to human eternity.I think that not having children to continue and to be able to see the continuing success of further generations is something that I would regret. I think that this is something universally human.
Yoyo: This is almost philosophical. You talked about the meaning of life really. I agree this mindset is universal and I know it is inside me somewhere as well. But I just want to point out three assumptions in this chain of logic:
1) Our children will survive at least until they are able to carry the torch,
2) the torch will not burn our house down, and
3) Our children will make the same choice by having their own children to carry their touch...
All I am saying is that one has to be optimistic to believe all three are true.
Rafi: Personally I don't think that global warming is the worst thing that might happen to my children. I can think of a lot of worse things that could happen to them.
Yoyo: At individual level I agree with you. But I still think global warming is the worst/one of the worst things happen to our children's GENERATION. It is a global issue and they might not have a place to flee to. Mars maybe.
You see, I am optimistic too.
Rafi: But that's life.
Yoyo: That's what I normally say in the end when I discuss something at philosophical level ;)
Lehayyim!
Rafi: I think that sums it up.
Yoyo: Umm, I am thinking about the next post :)
1 comment:
My statement "that is life" is a philosophy of life. Life has its dangers and life is sometimes hard, but we must continue living it.
On the subject of children, there is a midrash (midrashim are stories and parables related to the biblical story but not included in the canonic text that were told by the rabbis to fill in gaps in the narrative or to illustrate points) that tells of the time when Israel were oppressed in Egypt at the beginning of the book of Shemot (Exodus). The bible tells that Pharaoh the ruler of Egypt decreed to kill all the male children.
One of the central figures in the story - Amram the father of Moses decides, according to the midrash, to divorce his wife so as not to have children that will be murdered by the state. The midrash tells that his daughter Miriam challenges him and says "your decree is worse than Pharaoh's - he decreed to kill the males and you decree to kill both the males and the females".
He wasn't proposing to kill anyone but the midrash puts these words into Miriam's mouth to say that the natural life force must continue whatever.
There is also another midrash that tells about the Jewish king Hezekiah that he refrained from having children because he foretold that one of his descendants would be a very bad person. The midrash in telling this rebukes him, saying that it is not his place to consider what his descendants will do as he should do what he should do here and now.
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